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jekesta ([info]jekesta) wrote,
@ 2009-05-15 14:36:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Star Trek Again.
Okay, I'm just going to post this. I don't intend to make a million of these posts. I know the vast majority of my flist and the world loved the star trek film and are uninterested in my hate. But when I try to write different posts this one just keeps coming out. It's the same as before but with slightly less sarcasm.

I mostly gave up on cinema about *mumble* months ago when I saw Hellboy 2 and The Mummy 3 in the same day and I realised cinema had stopped reaching my RIDICULOUSLY LOW ACTUALLY, RIDICULOUSLY LOW standards. Turns out cinema didn't improve a whole lot while I was away. I didn't go into this film all negative, though, I really didn't. I love star trek quite a lot, and I generally enjoy star trek films while I'm watching them, but I don't genuinely believe they're canon. So I wasn't overly invested in whatever happened in it. I didn't have huge hopes just waiting to be dashed.

And I am so entirely against the complete lack of original thought in tv and cinema at the moment. So I was fairly positive the film wasn't going to convince me that making an au-re-imagining of something I love was the best thing in the world ever to happen. But I expected a decent film and some fun/interesting ideas and . . . less lens flare. I was totally prepared and expecting to come out of it going 'I like some of the things they did, that was interesting, la la la'. MY EXPECTATIONS WERE LOW, that doesn't mean I was too negative to give things a chance. It means that I was thinking they would easily meet them. I know I think this all the time and it just goes wrong but I DO TRY.

Obviously the lack of women and the way that Uhura was treated was my least favourite thing about this film. I can't bring myself to believe that Uhura in this film is actually what people are looking for from a female character, standards can't have dropped that low. And I cannot fucking believe they made her get undressed. I don't think Uhura and Spock are easily explained by being in an au, unless you accept that it's an au where women only exist to serve men's emotions. Even the emotionless ones. That is very much the au they wrote. I just don't think it's an acceptable one unless that is an issue you're thinking of addressing. I don't think it's acceptable that THEY DIDN'T PUT ANY WOMEN IN THEIR FILM. They put three in, who got more than a scene. Two mothers and a romantic interest. There were extras. Obviously. But you know.

Uhura didn't do anything. She didn't join in with anything. She overheard a message that allowed KIRK to save the day, by putting things together, and she told him about it inadvertently while half dressed. She got herself on board the enterprise, by going 'actually you're discriminating against me there' which is fine, it's important to stand up against discrimination, I just don't think it's entirely the point they were trying to make and I don't think they knew it happened. It would have been nice if they had made some effort to be a universe where there was equality already. If they weren't going to treat the women well they could at least have let us believe the universe did.

She wore a ridiculous outfit, that clearly meant she wasn't expected to have any need to defend herself or actually leave the ship or really do anything - I'm guessing there might be places - huge ice planets with cgi monsters on them for example - where bare arms and legs might be kind of unhelpful. I just thought she was appallingly treated, and I expected so much more. Not even that she should leave the ship, or have a fight, or any of that. It's not her job on the ship and that's fine. But if she's your ONLY WOMAN you might write her job into the script a little bit, or at least SHOW HER DOING IT, instead of just telling us how good she is at it and then letting us watch her kiss people. FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

I am so so so capable of loving something despite it having really dodgy gender issues, and I can totally see how you might here - I didn't like the rest of the film, but you know, if I had, if I'd liked the slash, if anything - I'm not judging you, I think that's why I've been deleting this post a lot.

I think even just if Uhura had been NORMAL and not serving as the heterosexualiser for BOTH main characters, I might have got over there being no other women there. If she had actually been *shown* to be good at her job and a part of the crew, in really small ways. That might have been enough, but for her to be the ONLY ONE and then just sexualised and . . . did she have any lines that weren't about her love for Spock?

I can't stand that they basically got all excited about how they were going to make an au and it would be great and at last they could have this star trek they've always wanted, without having to whine on about how the original series was so much more fun, blah blah blah aren't starfleet regulations dull, and it was going to be so super, and oh, how lucky we are! And then THEY MADE A UNIVERSE WITHOUT WOMEN IN IT. Great. That'll totally be more fun. It upsets me so much when I really think about it. I know I sound really naive, but I didn't know that's what they meant when they said tos was so much more fun. Or I guess I didn't know that people were accepting that so readily.

I'm not actually being idealistic about star trek, I'm about to sound like I am, but I'm not. I do know that all star trek is so amazingly far away from perfect, and I know that EVERY incarnation has so many huge gaping issues surrounding it and pretends that it doesn't, and I know that it is just awful, and I know that their basic thing is to appear quite progressive while being determinedly conservative. But they missed out the APPEARING QUITE PROGRESSIVE bit. They seem to have made a whole alternate universe just so it can be MORE LIKE OUR UNIVERSE, and then forgotten to even add in a bit of social change. And that's fairly central to trek, isn't it? And I know it was a film that was also sort of a pilot episode, and if it was a series I would be hopeful for actual characterisation and some sort of essential star trek philosophy in the coming episodes. But I've seen both new labour and new who, and I have learned Lessons. You're not a clever trick, pretending to be something new to draw people in, and then secretly smuggling in your original Values. You're just a lie.

I think there might have been more women on Kirk's dad's ship than on Kirk's. And I don't think they were wearing skirts. (IMPRACTICAL RIDICULOUS SKIRTS THAT MAKE NO SENSE IN ANY UNIVERSE.) So maybe ridiculous inappropriate skirts were just a fashion trend that the federation accepted for some reason. Maybe people are allowed to wear bikinis if they really want to. Or suits of armour. They both make as much sense.

There were women extras. I'm not saying they actually made space without women in it, that would have required an explanation and some sort of thought process and possibly an important message. They just made a universe where women were defined by their relationships to men, and didn't speak. Wow! I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE, WHAT AN INTERESTING NEW WORLD YOU HAVE CREATED, REALLY YOU ARE BREAKING NEW FRONTIERS. THANKS.

There are so many other things I hated. Some were just not-my-sort-of-film type things. The only bit that reminded me entirely of new who was when the red shirt died in the entirely wrong way. Because he was HAVING TOO MUCH FUN FLYING THROUGH THE AIR???? What? I don't really understand what they meant or what they thought that was and I do want to write paragraphs about how wrong it was, but I would have to use words I don't approve of. So I can't.

Seriously did they explain why cadets got to keep the enterprise? Presumably the fleet came back, and they had some senior officers around. Or did I miss the radio announcement about how they all died? I might have done. I was bored and uncomfortable and BLINDED BY THE FUCKING LENS FLARE ALL OVER MY SCREEN. If you are making a high school au, either dive right in there, or make a reason for that to happen, but having a whole film just to get to that point and having it turn out to be a point YOU COULD EASILY HAVE STARTED FROM with it still making just as much sense, is a total waste of my entire afternoon.

The rest of it was just not my sort of thing. The loudness of the punches was all very well but really wore on me. I didn't think they did the slash entirely well, I mean it was fine, but not very beautiful to me. I didn't like the fight scenes, you know, space battles. I didn't like how Kirk won his test or that they thought they should put that in. I didn't like that they made the most boring au they could, so the only point of it being an au was that they could make the main characters SLIGHTLY MORE MUNDANE than they already were, and the universe slightly more like our own.

But mostly it was the women thing.

(It was so bad. But there were things I liked! I left them to the end and put them in brackets, but I made an effort. I really liked McCoy. Mostly because he looked like a real person and wasn't made of plasticine. And he was great. I like that (fake) Spock looked like (real) Spock occasionally, I didn't like when he used Damien Lewis's mouth. Pike was okay. I like that Jim wore black. I quite liked Scotty and I really wasn't expecting to. I liked the . . . Decima? and that he took a spanner off of Scotty and then threw it down. I liked when Kirk was ill and racing around the ship, I thought that could have been far more annoying that it was, I like that his tongue went dead and McCoy could fix that! I quite liked Red Matter. I loved (real) Spock and how he was beautiful and how he used his voice. I think they completely cheated at the end there with the original music but I'm glad that they did - it didn't make two and a half hours worthwhile, but at least there was a moment of relief right at the end. I really liked the bridge design; I imagine it looked quite nice if you took all the lens flare off it. I liked the eye liner. I think I could cut it down to an hour and a half and then I wouldn't have HATED it so much, although it would still have upset me a fair bit and been a bit pointless. Most of these things I liked were moments. Very much just moments.)


(Post a new comment)


[info]yonmei
2009-05-15 11:29 am UTC (link)
Yes. Basically.

I am sorry I can't be more eloquent but really this is just a YES.

I like this post much better even than the one about Trek on feministsf, and normally I am quite loyal to my blog *is loyal* but really, yours is just so much more eloquent and truthful and perfect and beautiful.

Bah.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jekesta
2009-05-15 01:34 pm UTC (link)
Alice found me that post just after I had posted mine. I do read it on an rss feed, (which i like best because it doesn't tell me if it's you or not before I click through but I pretty much ALWAYS GET YOU RIGHT) but I must have missed bookmarking that post when it showed up. Every post where people point out that it was quite terrible is dear to my heart now, me and Alice are collecting them.

And thank you. You are flattering and super lovely:):) I almost didn't post this because I know I'm not very good at talking about actual thought things but OH GOD everyone loving this film was driving me kind of mad. Lots of people were saying stuff like that it was pretty bad at women characters in general, but GOOD AT UHURA!!!! I don't understand people at all.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]yonmei
2009-05-15 01:38 pm UTC (link)
It was TERRIBLE at Uhura, I don't know what these people are talking about.

I wrote about it on my journal too.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]copracat
2009-05-16 05:37 pm UTC (link)
I love you. Just, yes.

Because really, is there any organisation in the world, that isn't a Gentlemen's Club or a Hooters, that requires women to wear uniforms with mini-skirts?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

unhelpfuly
[info]dglenn
2009-05-17 10:26 am UTC (link)
Some field-hockey teams?[1]

(I'm much less interested in seeing the movie now than I was before I read this review. Even if I do see it and wind up liking it despite its faults, these flaws are gonna bug me.)

[1] Though it can be argued that those are girls, not women, and thus not pertinent to your rhetorical question regardless of smartassery.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: unhelpfuly
[info]copracat
2009-05-17 10:49 am UTC (link)
God yes, I forgot sports and I have worn hockey, netball and basketball skirts. But there's a reason, you know, why you should be wearing a short skirt and male players also wear shorts (in some sports very short shorts!) not modest and formal trousers.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: unhelpfuly
[info]jekesta
2009-05-17 05:43 pm UTC (link)
I really didn't like the film (I know that might have come across), but there are a lot of things I don't like that other people love, I could write just as hatefully about new who, neil gaiman and firefly, to name just a few of the more popular ones. So I feel kind of bad about putting anyone off seeing it. You might love it. Lots of peopel whose opinion I sometimes respect did. But at the same time it's probably best to go in not believing anything you might have heard about how brilliant they were about Uhura. It was just awful.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

On feleling bad about putting people off...
[info]dglenn
2009-05-17 11:29 pm UTC (link)
I don't ask reviewers to tell me whether or not to like a film; I ask them to tell me why I might or might not like a film, and then I can decide whether their reasons are likely predictors for me. On occasion I've decided to see a film because of a bad review, when the review told me that the reviewer hated it for the same reasons I would like it.

I'm less likely to go out of my way to see this one now, but I'll probably stumble across it someday, and whether I see it sooner or later, I may still like it when I do ... but I'll like it significantly less because of the problems you've pointed out. Not because you pointed them out -- that's just a bit of useful warning ahead of time that helps me decide what effort and expectations to invest in seeing it -- but because the flaws are there and likely to bug me.

So don't feel bad; you're just the messenger. A particularly clear, emphatic, and skilled messenger, but just the messenger -- not the one responsible for making the movie so much less than what it could have been.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]jekesta
2009-05-17 05:39 pm UTC (link)
:):) thank you. I felt really awful posting this to be honest, because my flist are all so in love but I am not in love and OH GOD.

is there any organisation in the world, that isn't a Gentlemen's Club or a Hooters, that requires women to wear uniforms with mini-skirts?

But don't you understand we made a WHOLE ALTERNATE UNIVERSE so that we didn't have to live in such a horrible terrible frigid world like ours, ANY MORE and so that we would be allowed the mini skirts that only political correctness STOLE FROM US!!!! GETTING BACK THERE HAS BEEN OUR LIVES' DREAM, DON'T DENY IT NOW.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]copracat
2009-05-19 02:20 am UTC (link)
Perhaps we should form a miniskirt deniers club?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2009-06-01 07:56 pm UTC (link)
I do think the underwear scene was unnecessary, but I don't see Kirk in any real sense competing for Trophy!Uhura. Bozo's just a reflexive flirt, but IMO there was no 'triangle.'

As to miniskirts, I do think it was done as a bit of a dare stylistically, part of the challenge being to parallel the look of TOS while *somehow* managing to not look as silly as TOS does today. I think it generally worked.

That said, it might have worked better wrt the skirt (in terms of having their cake & eating it too) if that had been one variation in womens uniforms -- and if, once the shit was hitting the fan, the dress had morphed into a tunic over some more utilitarian pants.

FWIW, the short skirts were actually nowhere near as reveling as Jeri Ryan's catsuits in Voyager.

As to other *significant* female characters dropped into the middle of the crew in this first outing, the problem is that since this is the *branch* point in the Trek 'verse, to add anyone else would be very heavy handed indeed.

Unless you wanted a female villain.


Hmmm...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jekesta
2009-06-01 08:17 pm UTC (link)
I can't actually be bothered to read through my post again to see what I said that made you think I thought there was some sort of love triangle going on with Kirk/Uhura/Spock, because it'll just make me cross about this stupid film again when mostly I've got over it and have got used to skimming all the love for it that turns up on my flist so terribly regularly. I didn't see a triangle relationship there myself. But Uhura was first introduced by Kirk flirting with her in a bar, she was basically used to sexualise him immediately. Then he fought with other men for her in that weird way that film does, and she stood around ineffectually telling them to stop and I think didn't he get pushed into her or something ridiculous? And then he acted as if Spock had won something by 'getting' Uhura and knowing her name. Which yes, is very Kirk. Even this new ridiculous version. I can't tell you how much I like that Kirk is a bit slutty. But if Uhura is YOUR ONLY SINGLE LONE ONE FEMALE CHARACTER you need to treat her a bit better than that. A bit better than having *all* her relationships with men be defined by sex.

the challenge being to parallel the look of TOS while *somehow* managing to not look as silly as TOS does today. I think it generally worked.

I think entirely it didn't.

FWIW, the short skirts were actually nowhere near as reveling as Jeri Ryan's catsuits in Voyager.

That's true. I don't think it's worth anything, though.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding really dismissive or rude or anything really. I'm not coping terrifically with talking to people at the moment, and I have trouble making sure my tone comes across in my words and you are anonymous and I have no idea how to pitch it.

Other female roles could have gone to giving Chapel a scene, or giving Janice Rand a part. Casting Pike's 'number one'. I know they all seem like they would have been hard to fit in, but if the choice had been made to include them FROM THE BEGINNING they wouldn't have had to slot into a film designed without them, they could have been part of the story. I'd have liked to see it be Kirk's mum who had been a star ship captain for two minutes before dying, and I'd have liked to see more women in positions of power in both star fleet and on Vulcan. But mostly I'd have liked to see Uhura written well, not given more to do, not made some all action fighting and brilliant mary sue, just written as if she had some sort of relationship with the crew beyond turning them on.

I think I said in my post, I don't object to television and film with few women in it. But you *can* write a film with mainly male characters and not make it entirely unfriendly towards women. They could have made us believe the universe both had women in it, and treated them well, I don't think that's too much to ask for from Star Trek actually. And I think they failed at it entirely.

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(Anonymous)
2009-06-02 07:59 am UTC (link)
I grant your point about Chapel & Rand -- even though there really was no time for anything of substance for the characters, it could have been possible for them to be shown -- however briefly -- as competent, and identifiable so we'd *know*.

Funny thing is, a few days ago I got this new 'best of' TOS dvd (Wrath if Khan being the only Trek dvd I have) -- in the ep where the Romulans are encountered the first time, the whole thing with Rand was sooo... embarrassing... by today's standards, so however imperfect, this Uhura *is* progress.

I know about the aggravation of feeling like you have to defensively parse & edit your own words so other people with axes to grind don't take things the wrong way.

Which is one reason why I'm glad I'm guy -- we tend not to [feel like we have to] worry about that so much :)

P.S. Kirk's *father* is established in StarFleet, so I guess that's another place Abrams figured no point in drawing down the ire of the canon police unless it was really worth it.

--newscaper

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